TX-NR515 - Monitor out issues (no picture)

Hi jksmccoy,

Thank you for this information.

I have been struggling with my NR515 and I haven't been able to get it work right. Audio from TV with ARC works randomly, 1080p/24 signal from HDMI Out MAIN just doesn't work and OSD doesn't show from HDMI Out Sub. So, now I have both HDMI Outs connected to my TV, that basic functions (1080p/24 and OSD) would work (which sounds pretty silly), and even now those functions work randomly.

Because there haven't been any real new information or progress, I think I'm taking my Onkyo back to retailer. I'm just really disappointed and frustrated. I bought Onkyo because they are popular and I even heard that they have good products. And then I got this. And these problems has been there two months without solution! I paid 450€ for this pain (in Finland)! Competitors product probably cost about a 100€ more, but after this, I will have a big smile if/when it works like it should work.

Onkyo,

Day three since I turned off my zone 2 and I have not had any issues with HDMI out. When will you have a fix?

I have not seen any recurring problems myself either. Zone2 off

aballen wrote:I have not seen any recurring problems myself either. Zone2 off

Have you tried 1080p/24 signal from HDMI Out Main?

I'm running at 1080i

aballen wrote:I'm running at 1080i

That works fine with my NR515 too, but 1080p/24 don't. Well, today I returned my Onkyo to retailer, so this isn't my problem any more. But out of curiosity I will continue to follow this thread and see what is going to happen.

Onkyo,

What will it take to acknowledge someone? What will it take to fix this problem and when?

I am a high end audio video integrator,we have been loyal to the brand for years and over the last few months have had the same issues.we sell about 60 or more receivers a year.since the new line has come out we have had nothing but problems! Customers calling every day with the same issues,I have lost several hundered dollars of my techs labor trying to fix them,only were is my check for the wasted time of myself and my techs??since last week the problem still is going on and we have dropped the line and since them have switches manufactures.

Cloneman315 wrote:I am a high end audio video integrator,we have been loyal to the brand for years and over the last few months have had the same issues.we sell about 60 or more receivers a year.since the new line has come out we have had nothing but problems! Customers calling every day with the same issues,I have lost several hundered dollars of my techs labor trying to fix them,only were is my check for the wasted time of myself and my techs??since last week the problem still is going on and we have dropped the line and since them have switches manufactures.

Cloneman,

I have you seen my comments about zone 2? I have instructed my customers to turn off when not in use until onkyo creates a fix. I am in the same boat as you, with NO support from onkyo. I am looking for a replacement brand also. Any ideas?

JayeizH wrote:I have been struggling with my NR515 and I haven't been able to get it work right. Audio from TV with ARC works randomly, 1080p/24 signal from HDMI Out MAIN just doesn't work and OSD doesn't show from HDMI Out Sub. So, now I have both HDMI Outs connected to my TV, that basic functions (1080p/24 and OSD) would work (which sounds pretty silly), and even now those functions work randomly.

Because there haven't been any real new information or progress, I think I'm taking my Onkyo back to retailer. I'm just really disappointed and frustrated. I bought Onkyo because they are popular and I even heard that they have good products. And then I got this. And these problems has been there two months without solution! I paid 450€ for this pain (in Finland)! Competitors product probably cost about a 100€ more, but after this, I will have a big smile if/when it works like it should work.

I'm kind of curious as to what TV you're using here. A few years back when 1080p/24 was a "selling point" people found their devices (like BR player, etc) didn't send that signal to the TV. So, people ran around claiming they had this or that, when in fact the bottle-neck was the devices connected to the TV or the actual BRD wasn't manufactured to display that FPS, in addition to the widespread confusion about the differences between FPS and HZ, how they're processed, and the semantic wording behind them in selling devices.

For example, I have a Samsung HLT6187SA (LED DLP) connected to a PS3. The PS3 manual specifically states that to get 1080p/24fps the Blu Ray must be encoded at 1080/24, the PS3 must be set to send that rate and resolution over HDMI (which by default it is not), and the TV is capable of receiving that signal. In my case, I can display 1080p/60hz and 24fps. I can also do, under very specific conditions, 1080p/120hz 24fps - though it's rare I need to or would see any discernible difference yielding positive results.

A TV that has (or in some cases "only" has) a refresh rate of 60Hz is not in any way capable of displaying a 24fps signal without 3:2 pull down of some sort. A 120Hz tv may or may not be capable, depending on the internals, but often can without 3:2. So while the refresh rate is not the same as the signal's "FPS", it does relate whether or not the TV can even display the 24fps input properly. Maybe that is what makes this a confusing issue to talk about. So, you're going to want to find the user manual for your device and get the exact specs. If 24fps isn't specifically listed as a feature on your TV (and it doesn't matter what other revie or AV sites indicate - they make typos sometimes), then you're not going to get it with any other device you buy. Then again, some people aren't very clear on the 24Hz vs. 24fps thing either. Generally speaking, 1080/24 is going to end up 1080P, 60Hz (NTSC) / 50Hz (PAL), 24fps and the display indicator on your TV may not be detailed in notifying you of this (mine will simply say 1920 X 1080p @ 60hz).

Since, as a new member I cannot post external links to point you to a tech write up about the concept, I'll post the relevant part below:

What makes things confusing is the concept of how many separate and discreet frames are displayed every second, verses how many times the frame is repeated every 1/24th, 1/25, or 1/30th of a second to match the refresh rate of the Television display.

TVs have their own screen refresh capabilities. A television's screen refresh rate is usually listed in the user manual or on the manufacturer's product web page.

The most common refresh rate for today's Televisions are 60hz for NTSC-based systems and 50hz for PAL-based systems. However, with the introduction of some Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD players that can actually output a 24 frame per second video signal, instead of the traditional 30 frame per second video signal, new refresh rates are being implemented by some television display makers to accommodate these signals in the correct mathematical ratio.

If you have a TV with a 120hz refresh rate that is 1080p/24 compatible (1920 pixels across the screen vs 1080 pixels down the screen, with a 24 frame per second rate). The TV ends up displaying 24 separate frames every second, but repeats each frame according to the refresh rate of the TV. In the case of 120hz each frame would be displayed 5 times within each 24th of a second.

In other words, even with higher refresh rates, there are still only 24 separate frames displayed every second, but they may need to be displayed multiple times, depending on the refresh rate.

To display 24 frames per second on a TV with a 120hz refresh rate, each frame is repeated 5 times every 24th of a second.

To display 24 frames per second on a TV with a 72hz refresh rate, each frame is repeated 3 times every 24th of a second.

To display 30 frames per second on a TV with a 60 hz refresh rate, each frame is repeated 2 times every 30th of a second.

To display 25 frames per second on a TV with a 50 hz refresh rate (PAL Countries), each frame is repeated 2 times every 25th of a second.

To display 25 frames per second on a TV with a 100 hz refresh rate (PAL Countries), each frame is repeated 4 times every 25th of a second.

If a TV is 1080p/60 or 1080p/30 - only compatible, it would not accept the 1080p/24 input. Currently, only Blu-ray Discs and HD-DVD discs are the main sources of 1080p/24 material. However, most Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD players convert the outgoing signal to either 1080p/60 or 1080i/30 so that the information can be processed by a TV properly for screen display if it is not compatible with 1080p/24.

Adding yet another device in chain has never sat well with me. The more devices in a chain, the greater the risk of malfunction. To relate this differently, a Swiss Army knife is a great camping knife, but a horrible fillet knife. When I need to fillet a fish, I reach for a fillet knife; when I need to cut a rope for a tent, I reach for a pocket knife. It may be convenient to simply plug everything into a receiver but that was the "convenient thing" and point 5 years ago when our TV's started coming with 4 HDMI inputs. I enjoy the fact that I "can" plug everything into my receiver and let it control things and I think using one remote to control all my devices is "neat," but every one of my devices can be controlled with my TV, or my DTV, or my iPhone, or some other "all-in-one" remote. It's pointless to try and migrate that control to yet another device simply because we "should" be able to, especially since the newest device in our set-ups seem to be the receiver (making other devices "legacy"). But, that's my opinion.

ejronin wrote:I'm kind of curious as to what TV you're using here. A few years back when 1080p/24 was a "selling point" people found their devices (like BR player, etc) didn't send that signal to the TV. So, people ran around claiming they had this or that, when in fact the bottle-neck was the devices connected to the TV or the actual BRD wasn't manufactured to display that FPS, in addition to the widespread confusion about the differences between FPS and HZ, how they're processed, and the semantic wording behind them in selling devices.

For example, I have a Samsung HLT6187SA (LED DLP) connected to a PS3. The PS3 manual specifically states that to get 1080p/24fps the Blu Ray must be encoded at 1080/24, the PS3 must be set to send that rate and resolution over HDMI (which by default it is not), and the TV is capable of receiving that signal. In my case, I can display 1080p/60hz and 24fps. I can also do, under very specific conditions, 1080p/120hz 24fps - though it's rare I need to or would see any discernible difference yielding positive results.

A TV that has (or in some cases "only" has) a refresh rate of 60Hz is not in any way capable of displaying a 24fps signal without 3:2 pull down of some sort. A 120Hz tv may or may not be capable, depending on the internals, but often can without 3:2. So while the refresh rate is not the same as the signal's "FPS", it does relate whether or not the TV can even display the 24fps input properly. Maybe that is what makes this a confusing issue to talk about. So, you're going to want to find the user manual for your device and get the exact specs. If 24fps isn't specifically listed as a feature on your TV (and it doesn't matter what other revie or AV sites indicate - they make typos sometimes), then you're not going to get it with any other device you buy. Then again, some people aren't very clear on the 24Hz vs. 24fps thing either. Generally speaking, 1080/24 is going to end up 1080P, 60Hz (NTSC) / 50Hz (PAL), 24fps and the display indicator on your TV may not be detailed in notifying you of this (mine will simply say 1920 X 1080p @ 60hz).

I have PS3 and Philips 40PFL5605. Both does support 1080p/24. PS3 is very good to test this, because there is setup that it can give 1080p/24 by default, automaticly if movie supports it or it can be turned off. I had it on automatic, so when I put BD movie in PS3 it changes it automaticly to 1080p/24. With this, TX-NR515 didn't show anything on screen from HDMI Out main, just sound. When I put PS3 directly to TV, it worked fine (and always has), and when get the signal from HDMI Out Sub to the TV it worked fine. When I turned 1080p/24 off from PS3 it works fine from HDMI Out Main.

Though I have to admit, I don't get what you mean by "people aren't very clear on the 24Hz vs. 24fps thing either". I guess I'm one of these people, because I though that those are basically the same. 24Hz means 24 pictures per second and 24fps means 24 frames per second. And even in PS3, there is mode 1080p 24Hz. Fps is how the movie has been filmed and Hz is how BD player will give the signal to TV. So TV doesn't even no how many frames per second the movie is, it just knows how many pictures per second BD player gives to it. Thats up to you how you call the signal. I have used 1080p24 and 1080p\24. Well, that is what I thought.

But that doesn't even matter how it really is. My TV shows that specific signal from PS3, HDMI Out Sub shows that specific signal from PS3, but HDMI Out Main doesn't show that specific signal from PS3. And that signal in PS3 is 1080p 24Hz.

Honestly as far as I'm concerned it should not matter what monitors or sources are in these systems!Bottom line it should work with all of them!I have been telling my customers for weeks and I am done!I have a ton of time invested in my techs and fuel on these projects.Onkyo should be paying me for my time of me being a beta tester and I am dead serious on this!I have been trying denon and marantz so far so good and I will say the air play feature is very nice.I would still be using onkyo brand but to not get any support and the same dumb ass tech or salesperson when I call them and they tell me did you check the firmware or say they have never heard of the problem,nope sorry not any more it has been long enough!I bet it's a hardware issue and firmware may never fix it!

I have customers units with zone 2 disabled doing it! The best thing will be when hdmi is gone!!!

deleted - sent as PM

JayeizH wrote:

ejronin wrote:I'm kind of curious as to what TV you're using here. A few years back when 1080p/24 was a "selling point" people found their devices (like BR player, etc) didn't send that signal to the TV. So, people ran around claiming they had this or that, when in fact the bottle-neck was the devices connected to the TV or the actual BRD wasn't manufactured to display that FPS, in addition to the widespread confusion about the differences between FPS and HZ, how they're processed, and the semantic wording behind them in selling devices.

For example, I have a Samsung HLT6187SA (LED DLP) connected to a PS3. The PS3 manual specifically states that to get 1080p/24fps the Blu Ray must be encoded at 1080/24, the PS3 must be set to send that rate and resolution over HDMI (which by default it is not), and the TV is capable of receiving that signal. In my case, I can display 1080p/60hz and 24fps. I can also do, under very specific conditions, 1080p/120hz 24fps - though it's rare I need to or would see any discernible difference yielding positive results.

A TV that has (or in some cases "only" has) a refresh rate of 60Hz is not in any way capable of displaying a 24fps signal without 3:2 pull down of some sort. A 120Hz tv may or may not be capable, depending on the internals, but often can without 3:2. So while the refresh rate is not the same as the signal's "FPS", it does relate whether or not the TV can even display the 24fps input properly. Maybe that is what makes this a confusing issue to talk about. So, you're going to want to find the user manual for your device and get the exact specs. If 24fps isn't specifically listed as a feature on your TV (and it doesn't matter what other revie or AV sites indicate - they make typos sometimes), then you're not going to get it with any other device you buy. Then again, some people aren't very clear on the 24Hz vs. 24fps thing either. Generally speaking, 1080/24 is going to end up 1080P, 60Hz (NTSC) / 50Hz (PAL), 24fps and the display indicator on your TV may not be detailed in notifying you of this (mine will simply say 1920 X 1080p @ 60hz).

I have PS3 and Philips 40PFL5605. Both does support 1080p/24. PS3 is very good to test this, because there is setup that it can give 1080p/24 by default, automaticly if movie supports it or it can be turned off. I had it on automatic, so when I put BD movie in PS3 it changes it automaticly to 1080p/24. With this, TX-NR515 didn't show anything on screen from HDMI Out main, just sound. When I put PS3 directly to TV, it worked fine (and always has), and when get the signal from HDMI Out Sub to the TV it worked fine. When I turned 1080p/24 off from PS3 it works fine from HDMI Out Main.

Though I have to admit, I don't get what you mean by "people aren't very clear on the 24Hz vs. 24fps thing either". I guess I'm one of these people, because I though that those are basically the same. 24Hz means 24 pictures per second and 24fps means 24 frames per second. And even in PS3, there is mode 1080p 24Hz. Fps is how the movie has been filmed and Hz is how BD player will give the signal to TV. So TV doesn't even no how many frames per second the movie is, it just knows how many pictures per second BD player gives to it. Thats up to you how you call the signal. I have used 1080p24 and 1080p\24. Well, that is what I thought.

I understand the confusion between Hz and fps, but there's a difference. Hz if refresh rate - how many times the TV display an image per second. This could be the same frame or a series of frames. fps, or frames per second is separate frames displays in a second. Again, I understand the confusion because it truly doesn't sound different. it's about the math and conversion:

"To display 30 frames per second on a TV with a 60 hz refresh rate, each frame is repeated 2 times every 30th of a second"

The signal from the PS3 is 1080p/24fps, sent to the TV that will either take the native display from the source and show it, or if the medium (i.e. BRD) isn't encoded for that, convert it to something the TV can use - 30,60,120, etc. Hz. I guess, think of it like this - Hz is how many times the TV redraws the image, any image. fps are separate images. So 1080p/24 is just displaying each image at the native, intended speed. Like deep color, the PS3 may not be sending a compatible signal to the receiver as it does to a TV, which is and is not a problem.

It's a problem because it's what you have, but it's not a problem because the receiver doesn't specifically state that it is compatible with the Sony software (which is how the BR features are driven on a PS3) - though I agree that it should. A side note - most 1080p material runs at 24 frames per second, as long as the TV performs 3:2 pulldown well. Older 60Hz displays must use the 3:2 pull down, whereare the 120Hz and 240Hz do not - they pull off the 5:5 ration without too much issue depending on how late in the game it was made.

I found another pretty good explanation of this on C|NET, written in 2008 (reviews dot cnet dot com forward slash hdtv-resolution/#more):

Moving video is composed of a certain number of frames transmitted every second that combine in the viewer's mind to create the illusion of movement. The nominal rate for film is 24 frames per second, while the rate for video is 30 frames per second. In standard 1080p video, which is technically 1080p/60, each frame is repeated twice. Every 1080p HDTV sold today can accept and display 1080p/60 sources via its HDMI inputs.

Not every 1080p HDTV properly displays 1080p/24 sources, however. Most Blu-ray players, as well as the PlayStation 3, have a setting that lets the player transmit 1080p/24 video directly. Blu-ray Discs with movies that originate on film are encoded at 1080p/24 to preserve the proper cadence of film--that characteristic motion that's smooth but not too smooth. If your player is set to output 1080p/24 directly, and your TV can properly display it, you're seeing the image as close as possible to what the director intended--how it looks when displayed on a cinema screen from a film projector at your local movie theater.

Generally, for an HDTV to properly display 1080p/24 it needs to have a refresh rate at some multiple of 24. The standard refresh rate for HDTVs of all varieties is 60Hz, which is not a multiple of 24. There's no benefit to sending these displays 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/60. If the HDTV can actually show the signal (some cannot), the result usually looks the same regardless of the setting on your Blu-ray player.

On the other hand, increasing numbers of LCD TVs have refresh rates of 120Hz or 240Hz, for example, while a few plasmas refresh at 48Hz, 72Hz, or 96Hz. All are exact multiples of 24. Some of these HDTVs come closer to preserving the cadence of film than others, and some can introduce extra dejudder video processing (usually user defeatable) that also affects cadence. Unlike with resolution, there's no easy way to tell from the spec sheet if a display with a multiple of 24 as its refresh rate handles 1080p/24 correctly, although most such displays that we've tested do.

In fact, it may be that Sony would have to look into the issue because they might not want Onkyo to get their SDK and develop on it (and if you recall the past issues with Sony, the hacking, and the loss of 'other OS,' they're twitchy about their SDK). I can look into it a bit more.

Looking into your TV, and I know next to nothing of it, I noticed this feature listed:

"HD Natural Motion"

Is there a way for you to set this as on or off? I'm guessing here, but is that the Phillips version of smoothing out intermittent and otherwise jitter from 24fps? I'd try turning that off to try it. I also notice that the HDMI standard of your set is HDMI 1.3 (whether that includes ver a-d, I don't know) From what I gather, the receiver is designed to be THE method of fancy features and seems to miss the handshake or become incompatible with the way other hardware uses built-in similar features.

I just turned off all extra features from input devices and allowed the receiver to do the work. On the other hand, I've only put in a PS3 and a DTV box so, I don't have to mess with half the things I'm supposed to be able to do. I'll be happy to help you with further research on the issue, as my time permits, but I'm a consumer like you.

ejronin wrote:Looking into your TV, and I know next to nothing of it, I noticed this feature listed:

"HD Natural Motion"

Is there a way for you to set this as on or off? I'm guessing here, but is that the Phillips version of smoothing out intermittent and otherwise jitter from 24fps? I'd try turning that off to try it. I also notice that the HDMI standard of your set is HDMI 1.3 (whether that includes ver a-d, I don't know) From what I gather, the receiver is designed to be THE method of fancy features and seems to miss the handshake or become incompatible with the way other hardware uses built-in similar features.

I just turned off all extra features from input devices and allowed the receiver to do the work. On the other hand, I've only put in a PS3 and a DTV box so, I don't have to mess with half the things I'm supposed to be able to do. I'll be happy to help you with further research on the issue, as my time permits, but I'm a consumer like you.

That is the same bs what is in every TV these days and I have put it off. But you are right, it wouldn't show 1080p24 right if it were on. And there is one 1.4 HDMI. It is the same plug that supports ARC (naturally), which worked quite nicely from HDMI Out Main, if there was only one hdmi connected from TX-NR515 to the TV. The hardware and 1080p\24 support should be fine. This why got the TV two years ago. And for low input lag. And there hasn't been any problems before Onkyo TX-NR515.

But, still I'm little confused what this have to do with Hz and fps. Fps is how the movie has been filmed. With this it is most natural to display it with 24Hz. And it is up to TV and player how they display it. Of cource TV has to convert that 24Hz to that frequenzy what it uses (putting more same frames/pictures on screen like you said), but if TV says it can show 1080p and 24Hz it can show 1080p24. But this so far offtopic that we are going soon to be kicked out from here

We are having the same issues on latest firmware. Sometimes unplugging unit from power helps, what is the permanent fix besides returning it?

We will see... I have Zone 2 on. Every few days, even if I leave the unit on, HDMI output to TV stops. TV sees no signal from receiver... I agree with other posts, should work with all TVs. Mine is about a 2009 Vizio and worked just with the last receiver I had!

Crossing fingers but have been doing that for about 5 firmware upgrades already!

Any updates on the latest firmware

Hi Forum users,

If you are having issue doing the latest firmware update over the Ethernet/LAN please try using the USB method. Please see the following how to video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LIsjKtjkDk&list=PLCD4593F66DC5D23C&index=17&feature=plpp_video

Thank you,

Forum Moderator.

Has anyone seen issues with the latest firmware? I am waiting to update mine before I do mine.

Gone, but not forgotten...

I've been hesitant to post, but I haven't seen the monitor out problem since installing the 6/26 update (1110-8106-0300). There was one day where my son turned it on and had a pink cast to the picture. He unplugged and plugged and we haven't seen any problem since.

Since then I did install the 7/24 update (1130-9107-0300), which seems to have disappeared from the Download Center now, but continues to work for me.

- Ted Gocal

I have been following this topic for awhile. I had been experiencing the issue of no TV\monitor display. It would happen quite frequently. I would have to recycle the power on the receiver. Well so far I have not had an issue since the 1130-9107-0300 firmware update.
I'm a happy camper now.

Hi Guys,

I purchased a tx-nr515 only recently (I'm newcomer to the Onkyo brand) and like many of you on this forum, I am suffering the very frustrating no HDMI out after the amp switches into standby. I tried all the recommendations; Network Standby ON/OFF, Zone 2 ON/OFF, etc... connecting via the SUB instead, which worked but obviously I get no menu options.

Anyway my amp automatically upgraded to f/w 1110-8106-0300 when I switched it on for the first time but I can't download f/w 1130-9107-0300 because it is no longer available online, no matter what country you are from, I'm in the UK. Does anybody know what is going on with this version? Do we have an ETA for when it will be available again?

I share your frustrations brothers...