Roku issue with my 809

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Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:36 pm

I've read the posts with regards to handshake issues with the different Onkyo avr's. With mine and when the 5.1 output from the roku is set, the screen turns pink/magenta.

When the roku is set to 2 channel, no issue.

What is the fix for this problem?

btw, Using "direct" as the pass through option on the 809 eliminates the tinting, but also eliminates the 809's ISF controls which I have made use of in addition to dialing in my own display. Using the 809's controls allows me to fine tune each source, a major plus. Utilization of "direct" bypasses those controls and if anything ever needed some fine tuning... it is the Roku.

FYI, Latest firmware installed today: 1131-1277-0211-3107

Thanks

Doug k

ISF tech since 2002


Last edited by d6500k on Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : additional information)

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:10 am

Ok, I'll ask this.

What streaming media server does not have this problem?
I'm certainly not married to the Roku.

I just want to get dd+ and all while retaining source controls within the avr.

Thanks

Doug k

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:58 pm

Interesting.... No responses from a Mod or forum member.

I've a hunch that the HQV processor doesn't play nice with the Roku.

Any possible fixes in the works?

Doug k


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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:06 pm

I am pretty much a novice with the whole home theater thing, but my Roku works fine hooked up to my 809.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:45 pm

Tasdier, hit display if you would and report the incoming signal.

Thanks,

Doug k

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:18 am

I just got off the phone earlier today with the techs @ Onkyo.

They were able to duplicate the issue with their Roku and an 809 avr while we were on the phone together. They had not heard of the issue until I emailed them with a description/settings/procedure and after that is when they called me. Pretty good Customer Service imo.

Onkyo, like most other manufacturers, can sometimes be caught delivering a product that is not truly completely "street-ready". But at least they did listen and responded with a positive note: they will fix the issue. It was very interesting to them that no one else had contacted Onkyo about the color shift. Kinda makes me wonder just how many people are setting up their equipment to display its full potential, both audio and visual. From my experience in the field as an ISF tech, I have sure run into more than a few "wow that's better" after I switched their cable/sat box to output 1080i/P rather than the default 480i.

In any event, they did duplicate the issue in their lab. It is something they can fix and when fixed, any 809 user and probably others, will be able to use the full potential of their avr instead of what amounts to a patch cord directly to the display.

I for one will be very happy to decrease the dab of black crush the Roku seems to exhibit by dialing in the ISF settings on the avr to the Roku's specific avr input. The display is already as good as can be but it can only show what it is fed.

So while this issue may not be Roku's doing alone, and for possibly inferring that I apologize, their (Roku's) cs has potential for some improvement.

Onkyo deserves kudos today, from me at least. They know there is an issue that they were unaware of before. They have promised to get back to me by midweek next. Once done, I've a hunch that there will be a software update. Don't be wary of it if you really want DD+ and 5.1dd from your Roku.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:47 am

d6500k wrote:Tasdier, hit display if you would and report the incoming signal.

Thanks,

Doug k

Hi Doug

Here is what I get.

Input HDMI2
PCM 44.1khz
2.0ch

Output THX Cinema
5.1ch

Hope this helps.



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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:11 pm

Thanks Tas!

Yes you are only getting 2.0 (stereo) and your receiver is matrixing that data to 5.1.

Now I do not want you to necessarily do this but if you were to go to the Roku setup and change the output to 5.1.... If your avr was not in the "direct" mode, you'd get a pink screen.

I've a hunch that you are not alone. These receivers sound so good even when they process the 2 channel data.. It is hard to discern whether you are getting 5.1 or not.

Doug k


Last edited by d6500k on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:41 am

d6500k wrote:Thanks Tas!

Yes you are only getting 2.0 (stereo) and you receiver is matrixing that data to 5.1.

Now I do not want you to necessarily do this but if you were to go to the Roku setup and change the output to 5.1.... If your avr was not in the "direct" mode, you'd get a pink screen.

I've a hunch that you are not alone. These receivers sound so good even when they process the 2 channel data.. It is hard to discern whether you are getting 5.1 or not.

Doug k

Hi Doug,

My Roku is set to output 5.1. Not sure if that is what you wanted me to check or not.

Thanks

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:20 pm

Tas,

Sounds good with the Roku.

If you are watching say Amazon Prime or Netflix, make sure the film is being sent to you with DD+ (Netflix) or 5.1 (amazon). With netflix, you must go to the films title area and scroll down to "Audio and Subtitles" if i remember correctly. Select 5.1, then play the film for a bit and recheck the display on the Onkyo. As a matter of fact, if you press display twice, the second screen will give you more data including what mode you have engaged.

Not a big deal, but 5.1 will rock you in comparison to matrixed stereo.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:04 pm

d6500k wrote:Tas,

Sounds good with the Roku.

If you are watching say Amazon Prime or Netflix, make sure the film is being sent to you with DD+ (Netflix) or 5.1 (amazon). With netflix, you must go to the films title area and scroll down to "Audio and Subtitles" if i remember correctly. Select 5.1, then play the film for a bit and recheck the display on the Onkyo. As a matter of fact, if you press display twice, the second screen will give you more data including what mode you have engaged.

Not a big deal, but 5.1 will rock you in comparison to matrixed stereo.

Doug k

Doug,

Thanks for that bit of information. When I went in to the Audio and Subtitles menu on Netflix and made the change I got the pink/magenta screen that you talked about in your original post. Glad to hear Onkyo could duplicate the problem and is something that they can fix.

Thanks
Frank

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:08 pm

Hi Doug

Not sure if you saw this over in the ROKU forums.

http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49088

Frank

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:54 pm

Yes and I had posted originally over there as well.

http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49088

It seemed like a somewhat hostile environment in that a "mod" would ask for the same data repeatedly and then disappear or come in swinging that Roku could not be the problem or whatever. So I posted my outcome as I have here and now will wait to hear back from Onkyo this week.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  tasdisr on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:36 pm

Well, I am glad to hear Onkyo is researching the problem so that a fix is available. I want to eventually either get another ROKU to hook up to my 805 which I moved into our basement or get a Vizio co-star for the 809 and move the ROKU we have to the basement.

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In regards to the pink screen.

Post  Semp1 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:21 am

Make sure before switching input to the Roku you shut what you're watching off before switching to the Roku. This corrects the issue 100% of the timefor me. Good thing Onkyo could duplicate the issue but could not tell you the easiest fix. Amazing! It's an Onkyo problem only. It happens with my 709 but not my Denon 1913. And BTW I keep everything on through, with the videoprocessor on skip. The receiver is always outputting the resolution being output by the device, which is 1080p and I have no audio issues what so ever with the Roku or Onkyo. I'm pretty sure if you do what I tell you to it'll fix the screen color issue you're having.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Make sure before switching input to the Roku you shut what you're watching off before switching to the Roku.

Tried that some time ago... no joy!

And BTW I keep everything on through, with the videoprocessor on skip

For the video processor to be eliminated from the loop, I believe the avr must be set to "direct". While this does "fix" the pink screen, it does not allow for the use of the Custom, Isf Day or Isf Night modes, the reason I'm in communication with Onkyo techs. With 5.1 engaged on the Roku, I want to be able to correct all flaws possible with the excellent tools available in the 809 and my display.

It's an Onkyo problem only

Only when the Roku is used! No other device in my rack causes the issue. I've also not heard of any other streaming device that causes the issue with 5.1 engaged. It does seem that the Onkyo processor does not "play nice" with the Roku datastream, but to say that it is only an Onkyo problem is not as accurate as possible.

I'm just trying to keep this issue on track Semp1. Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated!

Doug k

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  Semp1 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:08 pm

No actually for the video processor to be skipped it has nothing to do with the "through" or "direct" settings. You need to actually physically shut it off. Hold VCR/DVR( I believe CBL/SAT on the 809) and the Return button directly on the receiver while still holding VCR, hit Return again. Your receiver will then say Video Processor:Skip. Sorry, it's an Onkyo problem. It's clearly a hand shake issue that would be causing this. It's not the job of Roku to make sure their devices work with every companies product as much as it is Onkyo's (thats why there is an HDMI standard. All are supposed to follow). The pink screen problem you have, I do too and I figured out the problem by making sure to simply shut off the device I'm switching from before I switch. The receiver has to recognize no signal before you switch to Roku. Do you ever get a regular colored screen from the roku? Have you tried to connect it directly to the tv or another receiver? I know because I own 2 Rokus and 2 receivers one being Onkyo, one being Denon. The issue ONLY occurs with the Onkyo. Any way, what are you worried about. Eventually I'm sure the Onkyo will stop working all together like so many others. So don't worry you'll have another receiver the Roku works with eventually Razz

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:35 pm

It's not the job of Roku to make sure their devices work with every companies product as much as it is Onkyo's (thats why there is an HDMI standard. All are supposed to follow)

Perhaps, but it is still interesting that only the Roku seems to generate this problem. btw, I received an email today confirming that the Onkyo techs are still on it.

The pink screen problem you have, I do too and I figured out the problem by making sure to simply shut off the device I'm switching from before I switch.

When I power up my system to use the Roku, all other components are off.

Do you ever get a regular colored screen from the roku? Have you tried to connect it directly to the tv or another receiver?

To the first question, yes. The ONLY time the roku presents a pink screen is when it is set to output DD+ or DD5.1 and with regards to Netflix, a film must have the DD+ embedded and it must be toggled to output the DD+ signal. Amazon, on the other hand always outputs when the film has with it, a 5.1 signal. Thus, when the roku is switched to output 5.1 and I play a Amazon 5.1 film, I get a pink screen until I toggle the roku back to output 2.0.

Direct does seem to do exactly what your bypass protocol does. It bypasses any processing whatsoever. And therein lays the problem! I do not wish for all video processing and its inherent control-ability to be lost. If I did not care that the roku signal crushed the black and skewed the gray scale, I'd just run the avr in Direct and all would be fine.

My older ES3300 Sony avr, while having HDMI switching, does not support Netflix's DD+ embed. Your right... the screen does not turn pink but since the only reason for this whole deal was to receive Netflix and other streams with 5.1 sound, well it is a moot point.

To respond to your last point, I realize that all manufacturers today utilize consumers as beta testers. In my opinion, it started in a major way with MS-DOS. Manufacturers found that they could get a product out quickly then deal with problems that arose after consumers started to find issues. I've worked with, calibrated, sold and played with gear in every price bracket. EVERY ONE of the companies from Krell to Runco to Sim... all have glitches. Forums like this one are available for us to do a bit of venting while we try to get our gear operating to our liking. Am I happy that Roku doesn't work perfectly with my avr? No. Does my AVR work with all of my other components well? Yes. Is the Onkyo perfect? Are Denon/Yamaha/HK/etc.etc. perfect? Is Roku?

I'd rather try to pull gently on a string than to push one. Onkyo, to this point, have worked with me far better than Roku and to that matter, better than most other electronic purveyors I've dealt with in the past. Believe me, I'll become a squeeky wheel if I don't get my fair share of grease, but I'd rather work towards a solution than gripe about a situation.

Again, thanks for your feedback Semp1

Doug k
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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:04 am

Ok. Time for a slight tug on that string!

No response save for the email of last week saying that they were working on it.

FYI, I have come up with another work around. It required me to calibrate another preset on my plasma panel expressly for the Roku/Onkyo "direct mode". Somewhat cumbersome as it requires an extra step to switch the panels viewing mode but it does eliminate the black crush from the Roku ( verified by measuring the display while bypassing the 809 completely ). Onkyo must, IMO, fix the issue as my patch is not a permanent or best solution.

So Onkyo.. Tug tug

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:21 pm

Just got an email this afternoon from support. They are awaiting a new Roku device, so the email said. While I take this as a positive note, I did get mine (roku) in two days from Amazon.



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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  OnkyoUSA on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:58 pm

We will further research this issue, as previously informed via email and will update you on our findings shortly.

Thank You;

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:12 am

Thank you very much Forum Moderator!

Communication really helps, and I do appreciate it.

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Another option

Post  d6500k on Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:43 pm

While Onkyo works on the issue and Roku is ignoring it, I have developed another workaround for the color shift with dd or dd+ engaged with what seems to be the x09/18 Onkyo avr series. By the way, you do not have to use the 5.1 setup option for Netflix in the settings of the Roku. That seems to be necessary only for dd in Amazon and perhaps others with dd embedded materials.

The workaround consists of my calibrating a specific input for the Roku which necessitates the use of expanded black level controls some displays may or may not have. This control allows for colorspace to be increased from what was normally confined to NTSC Rec 601 to ATSC Rec 709. It would seem that to fully utilize the Roku, Rec 709 is the only way to go.
My workaround was to be sure my FPD display was set to the expanded Rec. 709 colorspace (0 to 255 vs. 16 to 235). This allowed my display to make use of the “headroom” allowed by the Rec 709 parameters. Once done, and the control is usually found in your displays advanced setup menus, I then calibrated my display using my primary output from my Onkyo TX-NR809 to my primary input of my FPD for the Roku (which btw required gray scale calibration as well as I have previously mentioned) using the somewhat unknown https://owner.roku.com/Add/1080p “1080p Showcase”. Using a signal generator would not have helped as the Roku would skew the results due to its own errors. This “channel” allows for us to use YouTube 1080p “test patterns” (do a search) videos with the Roku. (A caveat. Be wary of some of the test patterns you find there. Not all are accurate after verification with my reference patterns). The good news is, even if the pattern you like is off a tad, your picture will still be far better than any OOB performance. After calibration of the panel to the Roku output, I then used the rather basic (no color management) controls in the 809 to dial in the B/W levels and Gray Scale for my other connected devices. (even an old top of the line sony beta, just tough to let some things go ) The result? I now can watch the Roku using “direct” on the 809 which eliminates the color shift due to an incompatibility between the 809’s excellent video processor and the Roku’s signal. I also no longer have to switch, on my FPD, the input or viewing mode when watching any of my other source components. (Again, only the Roku caused me to do any of this)
.
Is this the perfect fix? Maybe. If Onkyo drops the ball and Roku keeps its head in the proverbial sand, you betcha! Should anybody have to do this with today’s gear? I do not think so. Furthermore, few others that are not inclined to go to the effort for the best picture possible will never know what they are missing.

I really hope Onkyo will provide an update of their firmware that fixes the bug between them and Roku with regard to the color shift. In the meantime, check your display to be sure that it is set to output Rec. 709 parameters and then reset at the very least, the B/W level controls. You will eliminate any errors in those levels and be rewarded with deeper viewable blacks and cleaner more concise whites. As I have said many times in the past, proper Black and White levels are the most important calibration protocol.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:14 pm

We will further research this issue, as previously informed via email and will update you on our findings shortly.

Thank You;

Fourm Moderator

Just a quick question.... What time reference do you infer using the word "shortly" in the above context?

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:54 pm

OK, It has been nearly one month. Please advise.

Thanks,

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

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