Roku issue with my 809

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Make sure before switching input to the Roku you shut what you're watching off before switching to the Roku.

Tried that some time ago... no joy!

And BTW I keep everything on through, with the videoprocessor on skip

For the video processor to be eliminated from the loop, I believe the avr must be set to "direct". While this does "fix" the pink screen, it does not allow for the use of the Custom, Isf Day or Isf Night modes, the reason I'm in communication with Onkyo techs. With 5.1 engaged on the Roku, I want to be able to correct all flaws possible with the excellent tools available in the 809 and my display.

It's an Onkyo problem only

Only when the Roku is used! No other device in my rack causes the issue. I've also not heard of any other streaming device that causes the issue with 5.1 engaged. It does seem that the Onkyo processor does not "play nice" with the Roku datastream, but to say that it is only an Onkyo problem is not as accurate as possible.

I'm just trying to keep this issue on track Semp1. Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated!

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  Semp1 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:08 pm

No actually for the video processor to be skipped it has nothing to do with the "through" or "direct" settings. You need to actually physically shut it off. Hold VCR/DVR( I believe CBL/SAT on the 809) and the Return button directly on the receiver while still holding VCR, hit Return again. Your receiver will then say Video Processor:Skip. Sorry, it's an Onkyo problem. It's clearly a hand shake issue that would be causing this. It's not the job of Roku to make sure their devices work with every companies product as much as it is Onkyo's (thats why there is an HDMI standard. All are supposed to follow). The pink screen problem you have, I do too and I figured out the problem by making sure to simply shut off the device I'm switching from before I switch. The receiver has to recognize no signal before you switch to Roku. Do you ever get a regular colored screen from the roku? Have you tried to connect it directly to the tv or another receiver? I know because I own 2 Rokus and 2 receivers one being Onkyo, one being Denon. The issue ONLY occurs with the Onkyo. Any way, what are you worried about. Eventually I'm sure the Onkyo will stop working all together like so many others. So don't worry you'll have another receiver the Roku works with eventually Razz

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:35 pm

It's not the job of Roku to make sure their devices work with every companies product as much as it is Onkyo's (thats why there is an HDMI standard. All are supposed to follow)

Perhaps, but it is still interesting that only the Roku seems to generate this problem. btw, I received an email today confirming that the Onkyo techs are still on it.

The pink screen problem you have, I do too and I figured out the problem by making sure to simply shut off the device I'm switching from before I switch.

When I power up my system to use the Roku, all other components are off.

Do you ever get a regular colored screen from the roku? Have you tried to connect it directly to the tv or another receiver?

To the first question, yes. The ONLY time the roku presents a pink screen is when it is set to output DD+ or DD5.1 and with regards to Netflix, a film must have the DD+ embedded and it must be toggled to output the DD+ signal. Amazon, on the other hand always outputs when the film has with it, a 5.1 signal. Thus, when the roku is switched to output 5.1 and I play a Amazon 5.1 film, I get a pink screen until I toggle the roku back to output 2.0.

Direct does seem to do exactly what your bypass protocol does. It bypasses any processing whatsoever. And therein lays the problem! I do not wish for all video processing and its inherent control-ability to be lost. If I did not care that the roku signal crushed the black and skewed the gray scale, I'd just run the avr in Direct and all would be fine.

My older ES3300 Sony avr, while having HDMI switching, does not support Netflix's DD+ embed. Your right... the screen does not turn pink but since the only reason for this whole deal was to receive Netflix and other streams with 5.1 sound, well it is a moot point.

To respond to your last point, I realize that all manufacturers today utilize consumers as beta testers. In my opinion, it started in a major way with MS-DOS. Manufacturers found that they could get a product out quickly then deal with problems that arose after consumers started to find issues. I've worked with, calibrated, sold and played with gear in every price bracket. EVERY ONE of the companies from Krell to Runco to Sim... all have glitches. Forums like this one are available for us to do a bit of venting while we try to get our gear operating to our liking. Am I happy that Roku doesn't work perfectly with my avr? No. Does my AVR work with all of my other components well? Yes. Is the Onkyo perfect? Are Denon/Yamaha/HK/etc.etc. perfect? Is Roku?

I'd rather try to pull gently on a string than to push one. Onkyo, to this point, have worked with me far better than Roku and to that matter, better than most other electronic purveyors I've dealt with in the past. Believe me, I'll become a squeeky wheel if I don't get my fair share of grease, but I'd rather work towards a solution than gripe about a situation.

Again, thanks for your feedback Semp1

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:04 am

Ok. Time for a slight tug on that string!

No response save for the email of last week saying that they were working on it.

FYI, I have come up with another work around. It required me to calibrate another preset on my plasma panel expressly for the Roku/Onkyo "direct mode". Somewhat cumbersome as it requires an extra step to switch the panels viewing mode but it does eliminate the black crush from the Roku ( verified by measuring the display while bypassing the 809 completely ). Onkyo must, IMO, fix the issue as my patch is not a permanent or best solution.

So Onkyo.. Tug tug

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:21 pm

Just got an email this afternoon from support. They are awaiting a new Roku device, so the email said. While I take this as a positive note, I did get mine (roku) in two days from Amazon.



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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  OnkyoUSA on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:58 pm

We will further research this issue, as previously informed via email and will update you on our findings shortly.

Thank You;

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:12 am

Thank you very much Forum Moderator!

Communication really helps, and I do appreciate it.

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Another option

Post  d6500k on Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:43 pm

While Onkyo works on the issue and Roku is ignoring it, I have developed another workaround for the color shift with dd or dd+ engaged with what seems to be the x09/18 Onkyo avr series. By the way, you do not have to use the 5.1 setup option for Netflix in the settings of the Roku. That seems to be necessary only for dd in Amazon and perhaps others with dd embedded materials.

The workaround consists of my calibrating a specific input for the Roku which necessitates the use of expanded black level controls some displays may or may not have. This control allows for colorspace to be increased from what was normally confined to NTSC Rec 601 to ATSC Rec 709. It would seem that to fully utilize the Roku, Rec 709 is the only way to go.
My workaround was to be sure my FPD display was set to the expanded Rec. 709 colorspace (0 to 255 vs. 16 to 235). This allowed my display to make use of the “headroom” allowed by the Rec 709 parameters. Once done, and the control is usually found in your displays advanced setup menus, I then calibrated my display using my primary output from my Onkyo TX-NR809 to my primary input of my FPD for the Roku (which btw required gray scale calibration as well as I have previously mentioned) using the somewhat unknown https://owner.roku.com/Add/1080p “1080p Showcase”. Using a signal generator would not have helped as the Roku would skew the results due to its own errors. This “channel” allows for us to use YouTube 1080p “test patterns” (do a search) videos with the Roku. (A caveat. Be wary of some of the test patterns you find there. Not all are accurate after verification with my reference patterns). The good news is, even if the pattern you like is off a tad, your picture will still be far better than any OOB performance. After calibration of the panel to the Roku output, I then used the rather basic (no color management) controls in the 809 to dial in the B/W levels and Gray Scale for my other connected devices. (even an old top of the line sony beta, just tough to let some things go ) The result? I now can watch the Roku using “direct” on the 809 which eliminates the color shift due to an incompatibility between the 809’s excellent video processor and the Roku’s signal. I also no longer have to switch, on my FPD, the input or viewing mode when watching any of my other source components. (Again, only the Roku caused me to do any of this)
.
Is this the perfect fix? Maybe. If Onkyo drops the ball and Roku keeps its head in the proverbial sand, you betcha! Should anybody have to do this with today’s gear? I do not think so. Furthermore, few others that are not inclined to go to the effort for the best picture possible will never know what they are missing.

I really hope Onkyo will provide an update of their firmware that fixes the bug between them and Roku with regard to the color shift. In the meantime, check your display to be sure that it is set to output Rec. 709 parameters and then reset at the very least, the B/W level controls. You will eliminate any errors in those levels and be rewarded with deeper viewable blacks and cleaner more concise whites. As I have said many times in the past, proper Black and White levels are the most important calibration protocol.

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:14 pm

We will further research this issue, as previously informed via email and will update you on our findings shortly.

Thank You;

Fourm Moderator

Just a quick question.... What time reference do you infer using the word "shortly" in the above context?

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:54 pm

OK, It has been nearly one month. Please advise.

Thanks,

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:35 pm

It has now been over one month since my initial request for a fix in regards with the connection issue between my Roku and TX-NR809.

Pardon my impatience, but if I hear nothing I can only assume I have been orphaned. Not Good for me or for Onkyo. I will pursue all options open to me as a consumer starting with a chat with the AG in Oregon http://www.doj.state.or.us/consumer/index.shtml.

And all because the Roku turns my display pink with any video mode selected save for "Direct". This setting defeats the Onkyo's ability to compensate for video errors inherent with the Roku. (Please do not think that all other sources are perfect. They are not, but I can calibrate them with the controls in the ISF section and for that matter the "custom" preset available to all, in the setup option. It is just that the Roku causes the "pink Screen" when embedded DD+ or 5.1DD are present. It (the Roku) is the only device that presents the anomaly.)

The ability to implement the video processor and scaler in the Onkyo and thereby calibrate all source components to output through the 809 to one HDMI input on my display, was/is one of the deciding factors in my choice of AVR's. The Onkyo TX-NR809 supposedly, and in its advertising states and I quote directly from the Onkyo USA website,
Video—whether standard or high definition—gets the royal treatment from a high-quality HQV® Vida™ processor and independent ISF calibration for each source.
leads me to believe that I've a good case and reason to be perturbed.

I will follow up on this in one week from today with the State unless I hear from Onkyo directly. A full transcript of my efforts to communicate civilly and courteously with Onkyo will be attached.

Come on Onkyo! All you've got to do is what you said you were going to do! You said you duplicated the issue in your lab. Does it happen with all your gear? Does it happen with your Integra line or other higher end Onkyo's?

Respectfully Submitted:

Doug Kinne


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and from the roku site.....

Post  d6500k on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Re: Neflix 5.1DD Problem with color shift.
by flint350 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:56 pm

Interesting thread and I have been struggling with this same pink screen issue. I have an up to date Onkyo 3009 and see this pink screen only with the Roku 2 XS in my chain. So I gather that it remains a handshake issue btwn the Roku and Onkyo, but no one knows which one is at "fault". Given that the Onkyo runs just fine with absolutely everything else I have (Oppo BD, front projector, media server, Darblet, etc), I think it's more a Roku problem. Reading the posts by d6500k, I have to agree with him. I have calibrated my display to isf standards and only the Roku causes this issue. I have tried the plugging/unplugging and am using high quality hdmi 1.4 cables and have switched among them. Even if I get the pink to temporarily go away, it always returns, especially after any switching of the signal. I have tried "through", "direct" and custom. The black crush was made better by using custom adjustments, but the pink screen returned. I have tried various inputs on the Onkyo 3009 and it makes no difference. I'm hopeful that Onkyo can find a fix via firmware as, given what I've read here about Roku's efforts, I don't expect Roku to solve this. Once the screen turns pink, it matters not what channel I try, though I always start with Amazon. I don't do Netflix, but I really don't think it has anything to do with the specific channel or 5.1 vs 2.0 sound. At least not in my case, as I've tried them all. Frustrating to say the least.
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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  flint350 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:03 pm

Well, I tried the audio setting switch and have the exact same result reported by d6500k. When using Through on my Onkyo 3009 and 2.0 sound, I can get a decent image on Amazon (using Iron Man 2 for testing). When I paused the movie and went back to the Roku audio settings and changed to 5.1, returning to the paused image results in the dreaded PINK screen. I switched the Onkyo 3009 to Direct and the pink went away and it maintained the 5.1 sound. So my experience mirrors that of d6500k, as does my opinion of the "support" provided so far on this issue. The image still appears to be a bit contrasty even with expanded HDMI selected, but much better than with "normal" which suffers from the black crush. I'll copy this to the Onkyo forum so you don't have to do all the work Doug. And thanks for the tip on the audio! Doug support is better than the others.

edit: when I speak of expanded HDMI, it's a setting in my front projector for colorspace that expands the gamut to improve the black crush - not an Onkyo setting.

Ray

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  david0406 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:29 pm

Ok I am going to add the link to MY Roku2 issue with my Onkyo TX-NR609. Onkyo Support are you going to read this link??????? Doug I am copying this link to add to your issue. One of these devices has an issue. The Onkyo or the Roku2. It seems the engineers from both manufacturers need to start talking to each other to resolve this issue.

http://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49088

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Re: Roku issue with my 809

Post  d6500k on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Thanks Dave!

As I have said many times now, I really do not care about "who's at fault". The fault is that both of the players (Roku and Onkyo) seem to not be communicating with each other! So instead of folks just being displeased with one or the other product, we are peeved with both manufacturers! It is just getting silly that with the capability of engineering and technical teams Roku and Onkyo must have at their disposal, both are choosing to ignore a growing group of buyers that can, and probably will, remove themselves from future purchases from either or both companies.


and dang it all.... I like both products except when they are connected together!



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